Friday, March 04, 2005
Well, I just spent the last two days helping Craig support the man. Or so it feels. I love Craig and Ben and it was a lot of fun to be up there hanging out with them. But at the end of the day I just realize that I'm supporting something that I totally despise, the church. No holds barred, just honestly here: I despise the church. I don't think it looks anything like it's supposed to. None of this is pointed at Ben or Craig. Craig's just staying inside the lines to feed his family and Ben's just serving Craig. But it's frustrating. If something doesn't work for 20 years in a row give up on it. And that's what I'm doing with church. Someday I may find one that's not a complete waste of time, but until then, I see nothing but bad things coming out of them.
Just to get the record straight; 9/11 and Iraq have nothing to do with each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are two different people with two different lives going on here and there's little to no connection there except we (US) hate them. Cause there was a powerpoint tonight at church that gave some statistics about 9/11 and one of them was the number of US soldiers that have been sent to Iraq or the number who've died there or something. I wa just amazed. They have nothing to do with each other. Any connection between the two is a lie that George W. Bush made up so we'd fight the war he wanted. I don't think the church should be the ones continuing that lie. It just pissed me off that we still haven't cleared that up and to see the grip that the lies of our president has on us. And, what followed were some clips from The Passion of the Christ and something about Jesus sacrificing to save us. Whoever made the whole presentation up obviously didn't care about facts they just wanted to drive that point home. Frustrating
And that's not even counting all of the stupid things about The Passion of the Christ. I hate that movie! I hate it! It's the most distracting piece of propoganda I've ever seen. It's majors on all of the minors and minors on all of the majors. First off, "It is accomplished" I really do prefer, "It is finished." The difference between the two? If you say, it is accomplished when you die, it means that the whole point of your life was to die. Like you've been waiting around to die and then finally you get to and you've reached that goal, so you say, it is accomplished. But if you say it is finished, it's as if some worthwhile thing was occuring and now it's over. It's finished. I believe that Jesus' death was no more important than his life. When he said, it is finished it means that all of his life work was over. he was done with all of the loving and healing on this earth in that form and his natural life was ending. It was finished. When you say, it is accomplished, it implies that most of Jesus' life was less important than his death and I don't believe that was the case. This just perfectly aligns with the sweet-bye-and-bye theology that pervades the church. It says, we're all just waiting around to die and go to heaven, and while we're here, we might as well save a few other people so they can wait around with us to die and go to heaven. It is accomplished pushes Jesus into that kind of theology as well. I don't believe that at all. Jesus' life was valuable from the day he was born. His feeding of the 5000 is just as important as his death. When he uttered the golden rule, I believe that that was just as important, if not more, than dying or saying, father forgive them for they know not what they do. But his death is so feel-good so the church likes to focus on that. They like to watch movies about a man get the shit kicked of him for their sins. It means they're going to heaven, and the special effects are so realistic, and you can buy the soundtrack so you can relive the grueling torture as you drive to work everyday. And you can just focus on Jesus' death constantly and forget all about the love he walked and demanded in the rest of his life. But that part is challenging. He told us to love one another. That's hard. We just want to sit around and wait to die, maybe bomb a few countries while we get bored and justify it through faith somehow. We don't like the life of Christ because it demands a response from us but the death of Christ is entertaining because it means I get to go to heaven. It slipped out of Craig's mouth tonight accidently when he said, at Easter we celebrate the death of Jesus. I think we are starting to belive that. Easter celebrates the ressurection of Jesus. His life. Not his death. But a movie about Jesus' life wouldn't make Mel Gibson lots of money at the box office.
Also, I hate the difference that's shown between Jesus and the other thieves. We witness hours of torture and pain while Jesus is beaten to a pulp but the two thieves show up on their crosses (which are different than Jesus') with but a scratch on them. That's so freaking Catholic. The whole point is that Jesus died like a common criminal. That's the irony and the beauty of the whole story, something that Mr. Gibson misses throughout. Jesus was crucified like a common criminal. He didn't have his own special kind of cross. The son of God, the prince of peace, crucified like a common criminal. That's the point. And I won't even go off on all of the stupid non-scriptural things that are inserted like the satan character. It's just an awful movie that really reflects what's wrong with the church today.
Anyway, then I went into the studio and we did a radio spot for this conference they're trying to push. It was good to be in a studio. It's been a few days. They have a very very nice protools based studio at CLA. It was fun. But even in that, I was just helping them plug a concert of "worship" that I don't even support at it's core level. A night of compromising yourself is not a fun evening. I'm just glad a I had good friends around me. They made it worth it.
Just to get the record straight; 9/11 and Iraq have nothing to do with each other. Correct me if I'm wrong but Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein are two different people with two different lives going on here and there's little to no connection there except we (US) hate them. Cause there was a powerpoint tonight at church that gave some statistics about 9/11 and one of them was the number of US soldiers that have been sent to Iraq or the number who've died there or something. I wa just amazed. They have nothing to do with each other. Any connection between the two is a lie that George W. Bush made up so we'd fight the war he wanted. I don't think the church should be the ones continuing that lie. It just pissed me off that we still haven't cleared that up and to see the grip that the lies of our president has on us. And, what followed were some clips from The Passion of the Christ and something about Jesus sacrificing to save us. Whoever made the whole presentation up obviously didn't care about facts they just wanted to drive that point home. Frustrating
And that's not even counting all of the stupid things about The Passion of the Christ. I hate that movie! I hate it! It's the most distracting piece of propoganda I've ever seen. It's majors on all of the minors and minors on all of the majors. First off, "It is accomplished" I really do prefer, "It is finished." The difference between the two? If you say, it is accomplished when you die, it means that the whole point of your life was to die. Like you've been waiting around to die and then finally you get to and you've reached that goal, so you say, it is accomplished. But if you say it is finished, it's as if some worthwhile thing was occuring and now it's over. It's finished. I believe that Jesus' death was no more important than his life. When he said, it is finished it means that all of his life work was over. he was done with all of the loving and healing on this earth in that form and his natural life was ending. It was finished. When you say, it is accomplished, it implies that most of Jesus' life was less important than his death and I don't believe that was the case. This just perfectly aligns with the sweet-bye-and-bye theology that pervades the church. It says, we're all just waiting around to die and go to heaven, and while we're here, we might as well save a few other people so they can wait around with us to die and go to heaven. It is accomplished pushes Jesus into that kind of theology as well. I don't believe that at all. Jesus' life was valuable from the day he was born. His feeding of the 5000 is just as important as his death. When he uttered the golden rule, I believe that that was just as important, if not more, than dying or saying, father forgive them for they know not what they do. But his death is so feel-good so the church likes to focus on that. They like to watch movies about a man get the shit kicked of him for their sins. It means they're going to heaven, and the special effects are so realistic, and you can buy the soundtrack so you can relive the grueling torture as you drive to work everyday. And you can just focus on Jesus' death constantly and forget all about the love he walked and demanded in the rest of his life. But that part is challenging. He told us to love one another. That's hard. We just want to sit around and wait to die, maybe bomb a few countries while we get bored and justify it through faith somehow. We don't like the life of Christ because it demands a response from us but the death of Christ is entertaining because it means I get to go to heaven. It slipped out of Craig's mouth tonight accidently when he said, at Easter we celebrate the death of Jesus. I think we are starting to belive that. Easter celebrates the ressurection of Jesus. His life. Not his death. But a movie about Jesus' life wouldn't make Mel Gibson lots of money at the box office.
Also, I hate the difference that's shown between Jesus and the other thieves. We witness hours of torture and pain while Jesus is beaten to a pulp but the two thieves show up on their crosses (which are different than Jesus') with but a scratch on them. That's so freaking Catholic. The whole point is that Jesus died like a common criminal. That's the irony and the beauty of the whole story, something that Mr. Gibson misses throughout. Jesus was crucified like a common criminal. He didn't have his own special kind of cross. The son of God, the prince of peace, crucified like a common criminal. That's the point. And I won't even go off on all of the stupid non-scriptural things that are inserted like the satan character. It's just an awful movie that really reflects what's wrong with the church today.
Anyway, then I went into the studio and we did a radio spot for this conference they're trying to push. It was good to be in a studio. It's been a few days. They have a very very nice protools based studio at CLA. It was fun. But even in that, I was just helping them plug a concert of "worship" that I don't even support at it's core level. A night of compromising yourself is not a fun evening. I'm just glad a I had good friends around me. They made it worth it.
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Hey Jason,
I understand your point on the "Sweet by and by" thought in terms of waiting to get to heaven/waiting to die mentality. My opinion or knowledge of truth has changed on this topic. Initially, as I was growing up, I wanted to go to Heaven in order to escape Hell, Xial (sp?), whatever you want to refer to it as. Upon further knowledge, not too long ago in fact, I was thinking about the true reason why people in general want to go to heaven. I feel that within myself, I've changed from my initial mindset to a mindset where I want to go to Heaven because of my intimate relationship with God. To be with Him, not to say that I am not with Him right now, but I mean, in a way similar to that as mentioned in "Enter the Worship Circle", when the author talks about simply being blown away by the awesomeness of God. And I feel this is what God desires as well...an intimate relationship with His sons and daughters, as i feel He intended. Not a cotton-ball palace with harps and ho-hum hymns. But a better understanding of the transcendency of God...and an eternity to understand Him.
But...God put us on this earth for a reason. He is not haphazard. So to desire death and having Heaven as your sole focus is wrong. I feel that our sole focus should be to serve God in whatever way he has gifted us. To love Him by loving others. This is what He desires. God would not have given us hands and feet if He didn't desire us to employ them for His glory. Likewise, God would not have given us reason if He didn't desire us to use it.
My question for you is...what is your understanding of the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection? Especially, when talking in terms of old/new covenants. Perhaps, if we could discuss in person sometime... that would be awesome.
Have a good rest of break!
-Troxy
I understand your point on the "Sweet by and by" thought in terms of waiting to get to heaven/waiting to die mentality. My opinion or knowledge of truth has changed on this topic. Initially, as I was growing up, I wanted to go to Heaven in order to escape Hell, Xial (sp?), whatever you want to refer to it as. Upon further knowledge, not too long ago in fact, I was thinking about the true reason why people in general want to go to heaven. I feel that within myself, I've changed from my initial mindset to a mindset where I want to go to Heaven because of my intimate relationship with God. To be with Him, not to say that I am not with Him right now, but I mean, in a way similar to that as mentioned in "Enter the Worship Circle", when the author talks about simply being blown away by the awesomeness of God. And I feel this is what God desires as well...an intimate relationship with His sons and daughters, as i feel He intended. Not a cotton-ball palace with harps and ho-hum hymns. But a better understanding of the transcendency of God...and an eternity to understand Him.
But...God put us on this earth for a reason. He is not haphazard. So to desire death and having Heaven as your sole focus is wrong. I feel that our sole focus should be to serve God in whatever way he has gifted us. To love Him by loving others. This is what He desires. God would not have given us hands and feet if He didn't desire us to employ them for His glory. Likewise, God would not have given us reason if He didn't desire us to use it.
My question for you is...what is your understanding of the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection? Especially, when talking in terms of old/new covenants. Perhaps, if we could discuss in person sometime... that would be awesome.
Have a good rest of break!
-Troxy
# posted by 
: March 4, 2005 at 4:31 PM
: March 4, 2005 at 4:31 PM
Troxy, and jason respectivly.
More and more each day I come to realize that although like you troxy I was brought up to believe "be a good christian so you don't go to hell." More and more I have a hard time believing in hell, and so also really don't belive in heaven either. Maybe most importantly, or least, I don't belive in God in a western sense of the word. I don't think of some great superior human like being whom thought all this out. But Dan, The bibles say's we were made in god's image. Man is notoriously vain. Who couldn't help but love the idea that they were created to be like God. Yet It troubles me that people find the only thing that God could have re-produced is his image. What about his soul? If such a word can really apply. When I say God, I mean everything, me, you, even the inanimate, the "rocks, and trees" so to speak. Even if you go by the Bible God created the "tree of evil" God created the Devil. We are always looking for the good God does and the Evil the Devil creates. But both things are god. To have a "relationship" with God means to know everything around you and to know yourself. Until you can see that you are God, and you can see that your no different than anything else. Your never going to find a thing.
As for Christs death and ressurection, I think it's some really really sweet symbolism. Jesus is a good example of a guy who "got it". I think Jesus is as close a thing to a "buddha" that the western world has. The Gospel of Thomas touches on this a bit. Jesus was a child of God, as are we all.
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More and more each day I come to realize that although like you troxy I was brought up to believe "be a good christian so you don't go to hell." More and more I have a hard time believing in hell, and so also really don't belive in heaven either. Maybe most importantly, or least, I don't belive in God in a western sense of the word. I don't think of some great superior human like being whom thought all this out. But Dan, The bibles say's we were made in god's image. Man is notoriously vain. Who couldn't help but love the idea that they were created to be like God. Yet It troubles me that people find the only thing that God could have re-produced is his image. What about his soul? If such a word can really apply. When I say God, I mean everything, me, you, even the inanimate, the "rocks, and trees" so to speak. Even if you go by the Bible God created the "tree of evil" God created the Devil. We are always looking for the good God does and the Evil the Devil creates. But both things are god. To have a "relationship" with God means to know everything around you and to know yourself. Until you can see that you are God, and you can see that your no different than anything else. Your never going to find a thing.
As for Christs death and ressurection, I think it's some really really sweet symbolism. Jesus is a good example of a guy who "got it". I think Jesus is as close a thing to a "buddha" that the western world has. The Gospel of Thomas touches on this a bit. Jesus was a child of God, as are we all.
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